Mawaru Penguindrum 17 and 18 Liveblog Chat Thingy!

How to participate in the liveblog chat:  Option 1: Whenever you watch the episode, comment on this post as you watch with whatever responses you feel like posting! Option 2: Go to Enter a nickname, then for the Channels field enter ##rabbitcube, and finally fill in the Captcha and hit Connect! We’ll be watching Penguindrum and commenting there starting at 1:00 p.m. EST. That’s one hour earlier than normal!

I will update with the chatlog after the chat.

Penguindrum 17
[13:01] <Arrlaari> “Someone is after you”
[13:02] <@Sylocat> I love this new OP
01[13:03] <Froborr> It’s pretty good, yeah.
[13:03] <Arrlaari> ad
[13:03] <@Sylocat> Ad
01[13:04] <Froborr> Paused after credits.
[13:04] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
[13:05] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
[13:05] <@Sylocat> Click
[13:05] <@Sylocat> Eww
[13:06] <@Sylocat> “Busted?” Where are they?
[13:06] <Arrlaari> in a hospital
[13:06] <@Sylocat> Ah
[13:06] <Arrlaari> so the cooking is a fire hazard or something
[13:06] <@Sylocat> Uh oh
[13:07] <@Sylocat> A sweater-vest?
[13:08] <@Sylocat> Oh dear… is Red Oniichan going to get jealous, and then it turns out it’s or him?
[13:08] <Arrlaari> The hat is missing
[13:08] <@Sylocat> Oh, it’s not for Kanba?
[13:09] <@Sylocat> I’d ask if one of the penguins is fooling around with the hat, but I assume they’re forbidden from touching it
[13:09] <@Sylocat> Ah, THERE it is
[13:09] <Arrlaari> The hat isn’t missing anymore
01[13:10] <Froborr> The penguins probably are forbidden from touching it, given that it seems to be the one thing they haven’t played with.
[13:10] <@Sylocat> I assume the penguins are only allowed to interfere when it’s funny, not when it’s important
01[13:10] <Froborr> That too, they clearly operate on Roger Rabbit rules.
[13:11] <@Sylocat> …Has she ever gotten fully naked before?
01[13:11] <Froborr> No, I don’t think so.
01[13:11] <Froborr> Ew.
[13:12] <@Sylocat> Yay, more incest.
[13:12] <@Sylocat> Who’s talking now? Is this Masako?
[13:12] <@Sylocat> Oh, it’s Yuri
01[13:12] <Froborr> Yuri.
[13:12] <@Sylocat> But who’s she talking to?
[13:12] <Arrlaari> Yuri and her husband
[13:12] <@Sylocat> Don’t tell me HE knows?!
[13:12] <@Sylocat> So Professor Oblivious is actually in on it?
[13:13] <@Sylocat> Or does he only know part of it?
01[13:13] <Froborr> It sounds like the destiny Momoka gave her life to change was the deaths caused by their family’s terrorist attacks?
[13:14] <@Sylocat> …I assume that was a typo in the subtitle?
01[13:14] <Froborr> I’m not sure. I can see what “They were everything Childhood” would mean. It’s strangely worded, admittedly.
[13:15] <@Sylocat> Ikuhara laying out his entire aesthetic philosophy through Sanetoshi
01[13:15] <Froborr> Yep.
[13:15] <Arrlaari> ad
[13:15] <@Sylocat> Ad
01[13:15] <Froborr> Paused after break, brb.
01[13:16] <Froborr> back
[13:17] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
01[13:17] <Froborr> Interesting gadget on Sanetoshi’s desk. An orrery, perhaps?
[13:17] <@Sylocat> I didn’t notice.
[13:17] <Arrlaari> What a trustworthy object for that trustworthy man to possess
[13:17] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
[13:17] <Arrlaari> And it does look like an orrey, yes
01[13:17] <Froborr> Indeed, especiall when we’re all about fate and free will and such.
[13:17] <@Sylocat> *googles orrery* oh, so THAT’s what that thing is called? I probably heard that somewhere before
[13:17] <@Sylocat> Okay then…
[13:17] <@Sylocat> Click
[13:18] <@Sylocat> Where did she go?
01[13:19] <Froborr> So, the octopus is Sanetoshi, right? With his tentacles in everything?
[13:19] <@Sylocat> She’s not even wearing the hat?
[13:19] <@Sylocat> Yep, the sweaters are for the brothers
01[13:19] <Froborr> Yep, he “gave her permission” to go out.
[13:19] <Arrlaari> So Sanetoshi gives permission for her to go out, then his two minions tell the boys it’s a huge problem she went out
01[13:20] <Froborr> Yep, what a trustworthy and not at all manipulative person.
[13:20] <@Sylocat> I should show this show to my mom, she’s a total knitting fanatic (as well as a social worker and therapist)
[13:20] <@Sylocat> Yuri making another move
[13:21] <@Sylocat> Wait, does Yuri know about Himari?
[13:21] <@Sylocat> I assume so
01[13:21] <Froborr> I’m not sure she does.
[13:21] <@Sylocat> Oh, does she only know Himari as Takakura’s sister? She doesn’t know how involved she is in this mess
01[13:21] <Froborr> Yeah, exactly.
[13:21] <@Sylocat> And Himari doesn’t know it either, come to think of it
01[13:22] <Froborr> And of course an encounter with Yuri will prevent Himari from getting her medicine on time…
[13:22] <@Sylocat> …and Yuri would be entirely okay with that, looks like
01[13:23] <Froborr> Id Marshmallow Sniper going to save the day for once?
01[13:23] <Froborr> Loving the music here.
01[13:23] <Froborr> It’s like a more elegant version of a showdown in a Western.
[13:23] <@Sylocat> Meow
[13:24] <@Sylocat> Which one of them has the minigun?
[13:24] <@Sylocat> Ah, Masako has it
[13:25] <Arrlaari> Masako commented on the music
[13:25] <@Sylocat> She did? I missed it
01[13:25] <Froborr> Same here.
[13:25] <@Sylocat> How much does Ringo remember?
[13:25] <@Sylocat> Ad
[13:26] <Arrlaari> ad
[13:27] <@Sylocat> Urgh, still 100 seconds left and it’s stuttering
[13:27] <@Sylocat> I need a better internet connection
01[13:27] <Froborr> I still don’t see where anyone commented on the music in that scene. Do you remember what they said, Arrlaari?
[13:27] <Arrlaari> Masako said she liked it, but the pitch (or tone?) was off
[13:27] <Arrlaari> Yuri replied that she must be hearing wrong
[13:27] <@Sylocat> I thought that was a comment on her singing
[13:28] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
[13:28] <@Sylocat> Still 71 seconds plus however long it takes to buffer the rest of it here
01[13:28] <Froborr> Yeah, that’s what I thought, too.
[13:28] <Arrlaari> Yuri wasn’t singing there, nor did she bring up the subject of her career singing
[13:29] <@Sylocat> I thought she’d heard a song recently or something, and was being a critic
[13:29] <@Sylocat> Oh well, I’ll watch all this again aat some point
[13:29] <Arrlaari> It would be a non-sequitir for Masako to bring it up in the circumstances
[13:29] <@Sylocat> Well, it’s also a non sequitur to bring up virginity
[13:29] <@Sylocat> Finally, paused after ad
[13:29] <@Sylocat> Ready…
[13:29] <@Sylocat> Click
[13:30] <@Sylocat> Oh, this isn’t going to be good
01[13:31] <Froborr> Oh, Professor Clueless is trying to warn her.
[13:31] <@Sylocat> Oh dear
[13:31] <@Sylocat> What a cliffhanger!
01[13:31] <Froborr> Or threaten
01[13:32] <Froborr> What changed his mind?
[13:32] <@Sylocat> Presumably the way Yuri was talking about the Takakuras
[13:32] <Arrlaari> It may be that he’s mad at the Takakura parents and wishes to get at them through their children?
[13:33] <Arrlaari> This may be an ED we’ve heard before
[13:33] <@Sylocat> I think it was pretty well established Yuri wants to do that
01[13:33] <Froborr> Well, yeah, but he seemed to be rejecting that attitude in the conversation with Yuri.
[13:33] <@Sylocat> Preloading the next ep
01[13:33] <Froborr> Likewise.
[13:34] <Arrlaari> He was rejecting the attitude of wanted to punish the children, which is different
[13:34] <Arrlaari> Or at least, it sounds different
01[13:34] <Froborr> Hmm, I guess.
01[13:34] <Froborr> I keep forgetting the parents are at large, not dead.
[13:34] <@Sylocat> Okay, paused
[13:34] <@Sylocat> Wait, aren’t the parents dead? I thought they went out to buy a mirror and got killed
[13:35] <@Sylocat> I can’t keep track of all the plot threads (pun intended) in this show
01[13:35] <Froborr> No, the mom at least survived being hit by a mirror.
[13:35] <Arrlaari> In two separate incidents, each of the two parents was injured by a mirror, but they survived
[13:35] <Arrlaari> They later went into hiding when their involvement in the bombing was suspected by police
01[13:36] <Froborr> I think that’s right, yeah.
[13:36] <Arrlaari> preloaded and paused
01[13:37] <Froborr> My friend Jennifer, who is our local Ikuhara and Disney expert, says that she had to watch Penguindrum twice through to really follow *all* the plot threads and confirm that none were left hanging.
Penuindrum 18
[13:38] <@Sylocat> Whoa
[13:38] <@Sylocat> Tripy opening
[13:38] <Arrlaari> Oh, I guess we’ll learn how Tabuki’s parents are awful
[13:38] <@Sylocat> …Who is this?
[13:38] <@Sylocat> Ah, it’s Tabuki
01[13:38] <Froborr> Yuri’s husband.
[13:39] <@Sylocat> Tabuki has a brother?
[13:39] <@Sylocat> Or had
[13:39] <Arrlaari> Had
01[13:39] <Froborr> I’m guessing had.
01[13:39] <Froborr> *preemptively cringes at what’s about to hapepn*
01[13:39] <Froborr> OW.
01[13:40] <Froborr> Sorry. Hands. It’s a thing.
[13:40] <@Sylocat> Metaphor!
01[13:40] <Froborr> At least he smashed his own hands, I expected he was going to smash his baby brother’s.
[13:41] <@Sylocat> Heh… have I mentioned, it brings back memories to have subtitles with the translation and romanization of the OP alternating episodes
01[13:41] <Froborr> Says interesting things–I’m reading this as saying he’s the sort of person who turns his anger inwards.
[13:41] <@Sylocat> Ad
01[13:41] <Froborr> Ad.
[13:42] <Arrlaari> ad
[13:43] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
01[13:43] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[13:43] <@Sylocat> Still 30 seconds left here
[13:44] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
[13:44] <@Sylocat> Okay…
[13:44] <@Sylocat> Click
[13:44] <@Sylocat> Have we seen this building before?
01[13:45] <Froborr> I don’t know, but I think it’s significant it’s in sight of the Tokyo Tower.
[13:45] <@Sylocat> Oh for goodness’s sake, ANOTHER plot twist?
[13:45] <@Sylocat> “Incidentally, I’ve kidnapped your sister.”
[13:45] <Arrlaari> Ah, he IS after the parents
[13:45] <@Sylocat> …He thinks Kanba knows where their father is?
[13:46] <Arrlaari> The CHILD BROILER
[13:46] <@Sylocat> Ah, so THAT’s how he got those scars on his fingers. I’d forgotten he had those
[13:46] <@Sylocat> The WHAT?!
[13:46] <Arrlaari> Invisible
[13:47] <@Sylocat> Momoka led a revolution?
01[13:47] <Froborr> That would be the traditional method of altering destiny.
[13:48] <@Sylocat> Yeesh
[13:48] <@Sylocat> I wonder what this is his metaphor for
01[13:49] <Froborr> You’re kidding, right?’
[13:49] <@Sylocat>  Whoa
[13:49] <Arrlaari> Fire
[13:50] <Arrlaari> ad
01[13:50] <Froborr> Ad.
[13:50] <@Sylocat> Ad
[13:51] <Arrlaari> Same as Yuri, his story involves Momoka enduring fire in order to rescue someone, but the source of the fire is different
[13:52] <Arrlaari> Paused after ad
01[13:52] <Froborr> Wait, she got burned in Yuri’s story? I forget, I just remember Yuri’s limbs getting broken.
01[13:52] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[13:52] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
[13:52] <Arrlaari> hold up
[13:52] <@Sylocat> Whoa, same time
[13:52] <@Sylocat> Huh? Hold up?
[13:52] <Arrlaari> You don’t remember that whenever Momoka used the diary, she spontaneously burst into flame?
[13:53] <@Sylocat> I don’t remember that either
01[13:53] <Froborr> I remember she got injured, I don’t remember fire.
[13:53] <@Sylocat> Are we ready?
[13:53] <Arrlaari> I’m ready
[13:54] <@Sylocat> Click
[13:55] <@Sylocat> Tabuki is officially crazier than Yuri
[13:56] <@Sylocat> If it turns out Kanba does know where his father is, that is officially one too many rug-pulls as to character motivation
[13:56] <Arrlaari> Video voyeurism is no good
[13:58] <@Sylocat> “Disappeared?”
[13:58] <@Sylocat> Oh jeez, have we ever actually seen Momoka’s corpse?
[13:58] <@Sylocat> Because if not, she’s alive
[13:58] <Arrlaari> I believe that “disappear” is a euphemism for dying
[13:59] <Arrlaari> I believe I’ve seen it used that way before
01[13:59] <Froborr> It’s also possible she uncreated herself.
01[13:59] <Froborr> It’s clear that Yuri at least is able to remember events that Momoka erased from history, so
01[14:00] <Froborr> No, wait, I forgot, Ringo’s story means Momoka has to have been in the world up to the time of the bombing.
01[14:00] <Froborr> N/m.
01[14:00] <Froborr> Also, hands are just going to keep being a thing this episode, huh.
01[14:00] <Froborr> *winces*
[14:00] <@Sylocat> I think everyone Momoka saved is only able to remember their own alternate timeline
[14:00] <Arrlaari> The weights don’t work out here
01[14:00] <Froborr> Did the penguin… do something?
[14:01] <@Sylocat> Huh?
[14:01] <@Sylocat> Ad
[14:01] <Arrlaari> ad
01[14:01] <Froborr> ad
[14:02] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
[14:03] <@Sylocat> I’ve gotten the same damn ad four times today
01[14:03] <Froborr> Same here, and it’s for a fucking scam.
[14:03] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
[14:03] <Arrlaari> What’s the scam?
[14:03] <@Sylocat> What’s yours?
[14:03] <@Sylocat> (great minds)
01[14:03] <Froborr> One of those “free credit score” sites that makes you sign up for shit.
[14:03] <@Sylocat> Urgh, that one
[14:03] <Arrlaari> Oh, I’m probably seeing that one too
[14:04] <@Sylocat> I’ve gotten that one three times
01[14:04] <Froborr> When legally, you’re entitled to an annual free credit score direct from each credit agency, no strings.
[14:04] <Arrlaari> I’ve seen two varieties, but both have the same theme: Your parents are awful and you need a free credit score to escape them
01[14:04] <Froborr> I’ve only seen the one, but that is the theme, yes.
01[14:04] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[14:04] <@Sylocat> Okay then
[14:04] <@Sylocat> Click
[14:06] <@Sylocat> Yikes
[14:06] <@Sylocat> Ah, Blue Oniichan to the rescue?
[14:06] <@Sylocat> Wait, WHAT?
[14:07] <@Sylocat> How the heck is Himari going to get out of that one?
01[14:07] <Froborr> Tabuki to the rescue, apparently.
[14:07] <@Sylocat> Huh?
[14:07] <@Sylocat> Wait, how did that happen?
[14:07] <@Sylocat> Wasn’t he above her?
[14:07] <@Sylocat> The geography of that whole scene was weird
[14:07] <Arrlaari> While the mechanics are weird, the decision was obvious
[14:09] <@Sylocat> Ouch
[14:09] <Arrlaari> A Klingon Divorce
01[14:09] <Froborr> That was a very final way of saying “goodbye”
[14:09] <@Sylocat> So Masako really does care about him
[14:10] <Arrlaari> I’m reasonably sure this ED is also a repeat
01[14:10] <Froborr> Well.
[14:10] <@Sylocat> Yeah, they cycle through a fe
[14:10] <@Sylocat> w
[14:10] <Arrlaari> It’d be worth checking if these EDs are cycling in the same order
[14:10] <@Sylocat> So… that happened
[14:10] <Arrlaari> They might be selected for mood, or the moods may be selected to support the repeating order
01[14:11] <Froborr> And we end on… hands.
[14:11] <@Sylocat> I dunno… I’m starting to be thrown here. I mean, if we know nothing about these characters’ motives, we don’t really have much reason to care abotu what’s going on
[14:12] <@Sylocat> And if there was any foreshadowing of this reveal, I didn’t catch it.
01[14:12] <Froborr> I dunno, I mean the motives of the Takaharas and Ringo haven’t changed, and they’re our viewpoint charas.
[14:13] <@Sylocat> True, but we still don’t know what Kanba is actually up to with “The Group.”
01[14:14] <Froborr> True, but I’m not sure it matters–we’ve known for some time that he’s involved in shady business that had a connection to his father.
[14:14] <@Sylocat> Fair enough
[14:14] <@Sylocat> But anyway, I gotta get to rehearsal
01[14:14] <Froborr> *nods*
[14:14] <@Sylocat> See you all
01[14:14] <Froborr> Later!
01[14:14] <Froborr> Arr, any comments before I copy up?
[14:14] <Arrlaari> I hadn’t picked up on the shady business being connected to his parents
01[14:15] <Froborr> It was way back when, around the time Marshmallow Sniper was introduced.
[14:16] <Arrlaari> It seems Sanetoshi maneuvered Takakura and Yuri into conflict with uh
[14:16] <Arrlaari> Masako and the siblings
01[14:17] <Froborr> It does look that way, yeah.

3 thoughts on “Mawaru Penguindrum 17 and 18 Liveblog Chat Thingy!

  1. Ok I feel like commenting again because you seem really confused about some of the earlier event in the show and its implications. Not that I can blame you…. this show is ridiculously dense and subtle at times. Not the best material for a weekly show format. Even binge watching this I got really confused the first time through and most people who analyze this stuff seem to consider 2nd/3rd watches mandatory just like with Utena.
    But to clear up a few of the more general things:
    Nobody has died from mirrors. The father brought Himari to the hospital on the stormy night which might have been the inspiring incident for Kanba to become such an overprotective older brother. And the other mirror just put the mother in hospital and was frame more as a sense of guilt on Himaris part (remember that was from her library / flashback episode). And how I see it the mirrors are metaphors anyway for the lenght the parents were ready to go to protect their kids. There is also other symbolism going on here but that later on … judge for yourselves. ^^

    So whats going on with the parents in the present and the whole “WTF Kanba?” thing…. I think that was intentionally confusing up to this point. Especially of if you look at the small details that have been very mixed messages through the whole show. Remember:
    There was that uncle who wanted to help… he should know whats going on with the parents but does his behavior make sense in that case?
    You may not have noticed but 1st ep or so you see the kids house nameplate and its implied that all 5 names are on it but the parents names are taped over like some kind of makeshift solution. Who would leave it like this for years if someone died?
    Kanba vs. Tabuki argument is just as very ambigious regarding intentions on both sides.
    We don’t learn in the earlier flashback what happend to the parents after the attack besides the police search.
    Also there are family photos EVERYWHERE in the kids home.
    In conclusion they could be dead and the kids are just in denial hardcore or they could be missing and the roof confrontation would make sense either way. Felt to me like intentional setup as “mystery”.
    But the men in black who meet Kanba look just like the guys his father worked with in the flashbacks and there are the same pinguin logos everywhere so there was always the implication that those shady guy with the money are the same organization that the parents had dealt with. AND HE MEETS THEM ON TRAINS!!!

    The minigun vs. crossbow fight comment was definitively about Yuris singing/acting career. That was basically just a very wordy cat fight where both women used the most shallow gendered insults they had at hands. ( little girl doesn’t know anything about the world vs. actress = manipulative slut )
    Plus point for obviously irony in regards to their similar experiences with screwed up childhoods + and oppressive patriarchal structures.

    Regarding Momoka: Yuris backstory explains:
    – The diary is cursed and every use has a price
    – Saving a rabbit gave her a finger cut
    – Saving Yuri gave put her in hospital and onlookers indeed mention something about her going up in flames.
    From that point on I always read it as her death in ’95 being related to another use of her powers with even bigger scope. Not hard to guess the hows and whys. And quite fittingly dark and screw up considering what kind of archetype Ikuhara is obviously going for with Momoka. XD
    The “Monoka disappeared” could be just much be intentionally ambiguous as well. Disappeared as unusual phrasing / translation chose for dead or because she literally vanished because of fate transfer magic logic erasing her from memories. On the other hand we saw her burial in flashback. Hmm… no idea

    Yuri & Tabuki earlier private conversations make it pretty clear that they KNEW about the kids history/parents from the beginning but their true intentions are once again ambiguous. The have this long talk about how this is all in the past and behave like reasonable adults but later we see how they both secretly harbor intense feelings of resentment. Draw your own conclusions. ^^
    I felt this scene had a much more interesting angle anyway. The whole show there was this feeling of extreme victimization and guilt for Kanba/Shoma. (Remember when Himara died the first time and Kanba say something like its their punishment and then later Shomas fairytale etc. And for Shoma there was this whole “I can’t be friends with Ringo because she is just like the others and they all want to see us suffer” logic…) I mean there’s pretty extreme paranoia without evidence at first and could just be all in the kids head for all we know up to this point. So this whole scenario basically confirms that there ARE people who want to harm them for various reason. Also the whole “sins of the fathers” topic…
    Also pretty fascinating how THOSE two also mirror each other in terms of relationship to Momoka and childhood traumas / horrible parents background.
    And someone pointed out way back on some blog how this even becomes a interesting comment on gender. Yuri get judged / suffers for her appearance/”beauty” while for Tabuki its all about talent / accomplishments. Also both overcompensate for thore feelings of worthlessness later on as adults in very self-destructive ways (where Momoka can’t help them anymore). Maaaan, that range of subject matters in this show O_o

    … and then the child broiler thing… oh boy
    I will only say don’t try to read this as just ONE metaphor. Looking at fan discussions this might as well be the most multi faceted symbol in the show besides apples and trains. Also thats not the first time this stuff showed up and where it was before might also be pretty telling 😉
    What makes arguments about this element so hard is how lot of its meaning is once again tried to a lot of specific cultural / historical problems we might not even know of in the west.
    Just to give one example what might be related to this: The longer the story went on the more I got confused about the 3 kids living all alone. First this was just LOL ANIME LOGIC for me but later this makes almost no sense with the more realistic characterizations. Later I read how that may actually be a reference to a specific abandoned (’90s?) social program where orphans who lost there parents (IIRC) could continue living alone in there homes instead of in foster care subsidized by govenment funding etc. The idea was that this was more humane approach then put them in the hands of strangers but in the end the system backfired horrible due to obviously desocialization / alienation / isolation problems etc. So yeah… seems that REALLY was a thing back than. But I don’t have anymore details on this myself.
    That would also give this worried uncle character a completely new meaning… XD
    … and there are so many more reads on those child broiler scenes anyway. And more fuel for different theories later on. MPD really is a monster of a show. ^^

  2. Thanks for the offer but I don’t think I would find the time right now… besides time zone problems etc.
    But if my comments are helpful I guess I’ll just continue putting my annotations here when I find the time.
    This wall of text has gotten far longer then I intended anyways ^^ … but this also addressed topics from multiple episodes.
    I wonder if I should tone this down anyways…. part of whats the point of Ikuharas abstract surrealist style is that everyone can find his own meaning in his dense material and I’m basically just curious what your conclusions will be in the end.
    I mean especially Froborrs Lets Plays and panel intrigued me because for me this was full of interesting new angles that for whatever reasons don’t see to come up a lot in other analytical stuff from the anime community…. or perhaps I just read/watch the wrong blogs/channels 😉
    But whatever is fine with you. I just try to keep my further knowledge for the rest of the show out of this comments … at least as far as I remember the details 🙂
    And if there is another topic thats really confusing you or really esoteric that I coincidentally have the context for I’ll make a note…. and I guess at the end when you have the fuller picture of the shows themes I’ll give you I few more links about major and minor references.
    BTW coincidentally knowing the context… well kinda….
    Just saw this:
    I think I didn’t mention this the first time round but the source book as well as this film adaptation are REALLY important to Penguindrum symbolism and inner logic. (I’m mean just LOOK at those character designs O_O) That’s once again something that seemingly eeeeeverybody knows and references in Japan but wouldn’t even register for the Western audience. E.g. the ghost train Froborr talked about in FF6 is another good indication how much they use/like this story framework.
    In regards to MPD: The talk about Kanbas Scorpion Soul / Fire, the everypresent apples and trains are all linked to this in one way or the other … besides all the other stuff the are linked to 😉

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