Mawaru Penguindrum 15 and 16 Liveblog Chat Thingy!

How to participate in the liveblog chat:  Option 1: Whenever you watch the episode, comment on this post as you watch with whatever responses you feel like posting! Option 2: Go to Enter a nickname, then for the Channels field enter ##rabbitcube, and finally fill in the Captcha and hit Connect! We’ll be watching Penguindrum and commenting there starting at 1:00 p.m. EST. That’s one hour earlier than normal!

I will update with the chatlog after the chat.
ETA: Chatlog after the cut!

[13:00] <@Sylocat> “Tower?”
[13:00] <Arrlaari> New OP
[13:00] <@Sylocat> Are they introducing yet a new element of her story?”
[13:00] <@Sylocat> Ooh, I like the new OP
01[13:01] <Froborr> Something about the singer’s voice reminds me of the first FMA:B OP. I don’t think it’s the same singer, but there’s a stylistic similarity.
[13:01] <@Sylocat> She kind of reminds me of Yurikuma’s OP singer
[13:02] <Arrlaari> ad
[13:02] <@Sylocat> Ad
01[13:02] <Froborr> Ad
01[13:02] <Froborr> That too, might be the same singer.
[13:02] <@Sylocat> Have we seen that scary pink teddy bear before?
[13:02] <Arrlaari> Kanba was running slightly to the left while Shouma and Himari were running directly away from the camera.
[13:02] <@Sylocat> Does Ikuhara often use the same VAs? Does he even control that?
01[13:03] <Froborr> I should think the director would have at least some say in the OP, yeah, thoughthe final decision would probably go to the producer.
[13:03] <Arrlaari> Paused after ad
[13:03] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
01[13:04] <Froborr> Rather, the singer would be decided by the producer ultimately, but the director would have say in the song/visuals and almost certainly input in the singer selection.
01[13:04] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[13:04] <@Sylocat> Click
[13:04] <@Sylocat> What are they playing with?
[13:05] <@Sylocat> Is that some Japanese version of Jenga?
01[13:05] <Froborr> Looks like a penguin-themed Jenga-equivalent, yeah.
[13:05] <@Sylocat> Is this a flashback? What’s going on with the actress trying to rape Ringo?
[13:05] <@Sylocat> Oh, they’re in the same…
[13:05] <@Sylocat> Oh yikes
[13:06] <Arrlaari> ????
01[13:06] <Froborr> I… what?
[13:06] <@Sylocat> …The heck? Did it already happen and Ringo woke up? Or…
[13:06] <@Sylocat> What the heck is going on?
01[13:06] <Froborr> The hell?
01[13:06] <Froborr> Ringo knows what’s going on?
[13:07] <@Sylocat> Well, she’s clearly loopy from the drug
[13:07] <@Sylocat> Except they’re right next door
[13:07] <@Sylocat> AHAHAH
[13:07] <@Sylocat> …Who is that that Blue Oniichan is with?
01[13:08] <Froborr> I think it’s a friend of his that’s shown up like once before.
[13:08] <@Sylocat> Ahah… her hero, ladies and gentlemen
01[13:08] <Froborr> WHAT?
01[13:08] <Froborr> This storyline is so fucked up.
[13:09] <@Sylocat> Suddenly it’s The Place Promised In Our Early Days
[13:10] <@Sylocat> Every time Yuri is onscreen we learn something new about her that changes everything we thought we knew about her
01[13:10] <Froborr> Yeah. Shit.
[13:10] <Arrlaari> This is surreal
[13:10] <@Sylocat> Like, say, “She had, like, the second- or third-worst father in the history of anime”
01[13:11] <Froborr> Yeah, he’s not quite Gendo bad, but probably worse than Hohenheim.
[13:11] <Arrlaari> ad
[13:11] <@Sylocat> Ad
01[13:11] <Froborr> ad
[13:11] <@Sylocat> Of all the places for an ad break
01[13:11] <Froborr> …and the jury may still be open on whether he’s gendo bad
01[13:12] <Froborr> I mean, none of this justifies what she’s doing to Ringo, but it definitely recontextualizes it.
[13:12] <@Sylocat> The Cycle of Abuse
[13:12] <Arrlaari> So, the surrealism of that scene might suggest that it’s not literal events so much as a representation of her experience of the literal events, but Ikuhara, so that distinction may not exist
[13:13] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
[13:13] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
01[13:13] <Froborr> Yeah, I think it’s safe to assume the distinction doesn’t exist. I mean, if I’m understanding correctly, “that tower” is the building that is also a sculpture, either of her father or made by her father.
01[13:15] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[13:15] <@Sylocat> Click
[13:16] <@Sylocat> What happened to her arm?
01[13:16] <Froborr> Fuck, her father broke her arm in that last scene, didn’t he?
[13:16] <@Sylocat> …Who is this? Is this Momoka?
[13:16] <@Sylocat> Don’t tell me that’s Momoka
[13:16] <@Sylocat> Yep
01[13:16] <Froborr> I’m guessing it’s Momoka
01[13:16] <Froborr> Yep
[13:16] <@Sylocat> That’s Momoka
01[13:17] <Froborr> Yeah, closeup on the arm as she’s saying that, her father broke it.
[13:17] <@Sylocat> Eeyup
01[13:18] <Froborr> “Don’t trust anyone except me,” classic abuser tactic.
[13:18] <@Sylocat> Okay, there’s something more to this than him just being a generic abuser
[13:18] <Arrlaari> Bitter breakup with her mother
01[13:19] <Froborr> Sexual abuse too, because Ikuhara.
[13:19] <@Sylocat> Nice use of the chisels and hammer to represent what happens
[13:20] <@Sylocat> Momoka knows?
[13:20] <@Sylocat> What’s that diagram they’re sitting on?
01[13:20] <Froborr> WHAT
[13:20] <@Sylocat> Wait, what?
01[13:20] <Froborr> The diagram is a subway map
01[13:20] <Froborr> I KNEW IT!
[13:21] <@Sylocat> …
01[13:21] <Froborr> I knew there was something here about changing trains/destinies!
[13:21] <@Sylocat> I probably SHOULD have been expecting this, but I wasn’t
[13:21] <@Sylocat> Oh… don’t tell me THIS is what led to Momoka getting killed
[13:22] <@Sylocat> She saved Yuri, and her punishment was getting killed in the bombing?
[13:23] <Arrlaari> ad
[13:23] <@Sylocat> Ad
01[13:23] <Froborr> ad
[13:24] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
[13:25] <Arrlaari> So, Sanetoshi said that one other, who had the same eyes as him, could see what he saw
[13:25] <Arrlaari> And here Momoka claims to be the only one who can remember the world that used to be before she changed fates
[13:25] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
01[13:25] <Froborr> Yeah, it seems very likely to be Momoka.
01[13:25] <Froborr> Still got 40 seconds to go.
[13:26] <@Sylocat> Shades of Escaflowne
[13:26] <Arrlaari> Her eyes and hair are matching pink, too
01[13:26] <Froborr> Indeed to both.
01[13:26] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[13:26] <@Sylocat> As I said before, it always feels like kind of a “cheat” when an anime character’s hair and/or eye color actually turns out to be important
[13:27] <@Sylocat> Or even commented on at all
[13:27] <@Sylocat> Click
01[13:27] <Froborr> Yeah, because it’s usually extradiegetic, so it’s always a surprise when it matters diegetically.
[13:27] <Arrlaari> Those are the scarves Sanetoshi took
01[13:27] <Froborr> Yep.
[13:28] <@Sylocat> So Sanetoshi is behind Double H as well?
[13:28] <@Sylocat> So “sensei” can also mean doctor?
[13:28] <Arrlaari> yeah
01[13:28] <Froborr> Yeah
[13:29] <@Sylocat> Gee, I wonder what Sanetoshi is talking about
01[13:29] <Froborr> The word “doctor” in English technically means an expert scholar too.
[13:29] <@Sylocat> Marshmallow Sniper?
[13:30] <@Sylocat> The layout of this hot spring is confusing
01[13:30] <Froborr> Does the hotel worker just not NOTICE the two unconscious children int he room, or..?
[13:30] <@Sylocat> Yep, it’s Marshmallow Sniper
01[13:30] <Froborr> Oh, I missed that it was Marshmallow Sniper.
[13:31] <Arrlaari> You didn’t recognize her weird catchphrase?
[13:31] <@Sylocat> She has a catchphrase?
01[13:31] <Froborr> Must have missed it while typing about doctors.
[13:31] <@Sylocat> I love the ping-pong motif
01[13:32] <Froborr> HOW DEEP IS THIS HOTSPRING?
[13:32] <@Sylocat> Does Blue Oniichan not remember what happened?
[13:32] <@Sylocat> Oh, she still has the half-diary?
[13:32] <@Sylocat> Oh for goodness’s sake
[13:33] <@Sylocat> This is plot twist after plot twist
[13:33] <@Sylocat> So Yuri’s father’s tower turned into the Tokyo Tower?
01[13:33] <Froborr> Looks like.
[13:34] <@Sylocat> This show gets more and more confusing
01[13:34] <Froborr> So it was something *other* than saving Yuri that Momoka died for.
01[13:35] <Froborr> Thoughts on the episode?
[13:35] <@Sylocat> Looks like
[13:35] <@Sylocat> Hmm… wow
[13:37] <Arrlaari> So, I have a friend who is a CSA survivor and deeply invested in Ikuhara’s works. She feels like Ikuhara’s representation of CSA is rooted in experience. She couched that speculation in caveats re: Uncertainty, not prying, etc.
[13:38] <Arrlaari> But she feels that Ikuhara’s treatment of the topic is truer to her experience than anything else.
01[13:40] <Froborr> Huh. Well, I’ve wondered that myself, but not being a CSA survivor I couldn’t say if it really rang true to the experience. Interesting to hear from someone who does have that experience.
Penguindrum 16
[13:44] <@Sylocat> Another new character
01[13:44] <Froborr> Marshmallow Sniper backstory now?
[13:44] <@Sylocat> Ooh, Marshmallow Sniper’s backstory!
[13:44] <@Sylocat> I was wondering when we’d get that
[13:44] <Arrlaari> The subtitles this episode are romanizing the japanese. Last episode the subtitles gave translation.
[13:44] <@Sylocat> It’s been a while since I saw an anime that did that
01[13:45] <Froborr> Yeah, it used to be pretty much standard to alternate episodes that way.
[13:45] <Arrlaari> Just now in the OP we saw fire coming up Ringo’s lower foot
[13:45] <@Sylocat> Usually they present both the romanization and the translation at once, these days
[13:45] <Arrlaari> Last episode, we saw that Momoko’s punishment for changing fate is spontaneous combustion
01[13:45] <Froborr> I missed that! Interesting.
01[13:45] <Froborr> Ad/
[13:45] <Arrlaari> ad
[13:45] <@Sylocat> And Marshmallow Sniper’s real name is Masako Natsume, right?
01[13:46] <Froborr> LONG ad break, 150 seconds and that’s before any extra time tacked on for loadfail.
01[13:46] <Froborr> I believe so, yes.
[13:46] <Arrlaari> Yeah. I believe Natsume is the patronym
[13:46] <@Sylocat> Only 120 seconds for me, but still
[13:46] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
[13:46] <@Sylocat> Yeah, I should have said “Natsume Masako”
[13:46] <@Sylocat> Whoa, it suddenly jumped from having 90 seconds left to having 30
[13:46] <@Sylocat> I’m not complaining, mind you
[13:48] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
01[13:48] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[13:49] <@Sylocat> Click
[13:49] <Arrlaari> It’s set to troll the thief
[13:49] <@Sylocat> Yuri is downright cruel
[13:50] <@Sylocat> Ahahahah
[13:50] <@Sylocat> Blue Danube?
01[13:50] <Froborr> AND start a fire. Risky, couldn’t that have destroyed the other half of the diary
01[13:50] <Froborr> ?
[13:50] <@Sylocat> First the Ugly Duckling, and now the Blue Danube
[13:50] <@Sylocat> Something tells me the diary is indestructible
[13:51] <@Sylocat> …That’s not Yuri’s dad, is it?
[13:51] <@Sylocat> No, thank goodness
[13:51] <@Sylocat> Yuri’s dad didn’t have that awesome facial hair
[13:52] <@Sylocat> Sanetoshi’s two followers are actually those two scary rabbits, right?
01[13:52] <Froborr> Fairly sure, yeah.
[13:52] <@Sylocat> Ahahah, Marshmallow Sniper has her beleaguered maid trailing Red Oniichan
[13:53] <@Sylocat> “Forehead girl?”
[13:53] <@Sylocat> That’s a new one
01[13:53] <Froborr> LOL
[13:53] <@Sylocat> Whoa
[13:54] <@Sylocat> They’re riffing on what? I couldn’t read that note in time
01[13:54] <Froborr> They’re speaking in traditional tanka poetry “for no apparent reason” according to the captions.
[13:55] <@Sylocat> Huh?
[13:55] <@Sylocat> What in the name of…
[13:55] <@Sylocat> Do I want to have any idea what just happened?
[13:56] <@Sylocat> Have we gotten a translation of that thing on his face?
[13:56] <@Sylocat> Whoa
01[13:56] <Froborr> “Grandfather”
[13:56] <@Sylocat> Ah, it was a dream?
[13:56] <@Sylocat> She only dreamed about killing her grandfather
[13:57] <@Sylocat> Ah, so that’s how she met Red Oniichan?
[13:57] <@Sylocat> In English?
[13:57] <@Sylocat> That was a line in English
01[13:57] <Froborr> I guess one of the board members is American..?
01[13:58] <Froborr> I guess that blonde guy.
[13:58] <@Sylocat> Leave it to Ikuhara to have an episode like this after an episode like the last one
[13:58] <Arrlaari> I guess the blond guy is American
[13:58] <Arrlaari> Not an entirely natural accent but better than most
01[13:58] <Froborr> This is like that episode with Nanami trying to show up Anthy early in Utena.
[13:59] <@Sylocat> I was just thinking that as well
01[13:59] <Froborr> Ad.
[13:59] <@Sylocat> (understandable given the source)
[13:59] <@Sylocat> Ad
[13:59] <Arrlaari> ad
01[13:59] <Froborr> Another really long break.
[13:59] <Arrlaari> ad over for me
[13:59] <@Sylocat> 60 seconds left on mine
[14:01] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
[14:02] <@Sylocat> So, that’s why this episode is called “Immortal Man” then
01[14:02] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[14:02] <@Sylocat> Click
01[14:02] <Froborr> Yeah, I was expecting that to turn out to refer to Dr. Pinkhair.
[14:03] <Arrlaari> I wonder if the station names have meaning to people who live in tokyo
[14:03] <@Sylocat> Dang, that guy needs to die
[14:05] <@Sylocat> Lol, he has the same voice actor as his grownup self even as a kid
[14:06] <@Sylocat> Ahahah… this is how he died
01[14:06] <Froborr> I… what.
[14:06] <@Sylocat> What man’s curse? The grandfather’s?
[14:07] <@Sylocat> Oh dear
[14:07] <@Sylocat> Ugh, what a horrifying dream
[14:07] <Arrlaari> There’s a certain kind of blowfish, with poison concentrated in a specific gland. It’s very expensive to eat and must be carefully prepared so that the poison doesn’t get to the rest of the fish
01[14:09] <Froborr> What even IS this show?
[14:09] <@Sylocat> This is another dream sequence, right?
[14:09] <@Sylocat>
[14:09] <Arrlaari> Sanetoshi explains that thing now
[14:09] <@Sylocat> Ah, a technical explanation!
[14:10] <Arrlaari> Mario is kind of drowning, though?
[14:10] <Arrlaari> ad
[14:10] <@Sylocat> So what the hell is Sanetoshi’s game here?
[14:10] <@Sylocat> Ad
01[14:10] <Froborr> Ad
01[14:10] <Froborr> This episode is possibly even more fucked up than the last couple, albeit in a very different way.
[14:11] <Arrlaari> paused after ad
[14:11] <@Sylocat> Well, at least here it’s (probably?) a dream
01[14:11] <Froborr> It’s the fact that all this fucked up gothic horror shit is happening, and it’s REALLY FUNNY.
[14:11] <@Sylocat> Paused after ad
[14:12] <@Sylocat> It helps that in this episode, it’s “toxic masculinity taking itself out”
01[14:12] <Froborr> True.
[14:12] <@Sylocat> At least, as far as grandfather’s death was concerned
01[14:12] <Froborr> But the grandfather possessing the grandson?
01[14:12] <Froborr> The burning of the toys?
[14:12] <@Sylocat> True
01[14:12] <Froborr> Paused after ad.
[14:12] <Arrlaari> The possession seems metaphorical to me
[14:13] <@Sylocat> Click
01[14:13] <Froborr> I mean, it’s Ikuhara. Metaphor is literal.
[14:14] <@Sylocat> Huh?
01[14:14] <Froborr> So wait, is Natsume connected to the bros’ terrorist family?
[14:14] <Arrlaari> Men in black hats again
01[14:14] <Froborr> Oh.
01[14:15] <Froborr> This is how she was recruited.
[14:15] <@Sylocat> New ED too
[14:15] <Arrlaari> another new ED!
[14:15] <@Sylocat> I love this one
01[14:15] <Froborr> Yeah, this is fun.
[14:16] <Arrlaari> Similar animation, blue background this time
[14:17] <@Sylocat> Oooooookay then…
01[14:17] <Froborr> Well.
01[14:17] <Froborr> Those are two episodes that happened.
01[14:17] <Froborr> And gave a TON of backstory while answering effectively no questions whasoever.
01[14:17] <Froborr> Well, they answered what’s special about the diary, but that seems to be it.
[14:18] <@Sylocat> And they introduced more characters to keep track of
[14:18] <@Sylocat> I hope this show has a wiki, I’m definitely going to need it by the time this is over
[14:18] <Arrlaari> There was one answer that covered multiple questions about Momoka, Sanetoshi, and probably the Hat
01[14:18] <Froborr> They did at that.
[14:19] <Arrlaari> And there was an explanation for how Kanba and Natsume are connected
[14:19] <@Sylocat> Sort of
[14:19] <@Sylocat> I mean, was it covered how they broke up?
[14:20] <Arrlaari> Also, very strong hints that the Black Hats gang are somehow connected to Sanetoshi
01[14:20] <Froborr> Yeah.
01[14:20] <Froborr> “Trying to reclaim the world,” too.
01[14:20] <Froborr> Perhaps seeking a way to reverse Momoka’s changes?
[14:20] <Arrlaari> Not directly, but it seems suggested that his involvement with the Black Hats is the cause
[14:22] <@Sylocat> Do we know anything about the black hats?
[14:23] <Arrlaari> We”ve seen Kanba recieving money from them before. In one episode he was saying to one “about the next job” which to me suggests that Kanba is some level of management in their group
01[14:23] <Froborr> Not really. Kanba is involved with them, they’re shady, that’s about it.

5 thoughts on “Mawaru Penguindrum 15 and 16 Liveblog Chat Thingy!

  1. At the time Sanetoshi was telling Kanba that family is a curse, the fact that Kanba’s parents had to go into hiding under investigation for the subway bombing was completely out of my mind, even though that’s ostensibly what Sanetoshi would have been referring to.

  2. Hi, really like your videos (especially your panel uploads) so I found my way here and this logs are also surprisingly entertaining to read because they remind me so much how much I struggled when I watched those Ikuhara shows the first time. Was also pretty amusing to realize that I had stumble onto your writings before when this was all still on your old(?) site when Madoka was still a big discussion point in the anime blogger community. Finally clicked when you mentioned your book. The world really is a small place 😀
    But to get to the point: I don’t want to spoil anything for you but you seemed really confused about a lot of elements in Yuris subplot and a lot of people have written about the more culture specific references in Ikuharas shows over the years so I thought I point out a few things.
    First of the whole musical diva / actress part of her story is basically on big self referential joke.
    Just look up Takarazuka Revue on Wikipedia if you want all the details but the short version is: only female actresses, Broadway style bombastic performances, big crossover influence between shoujo manga / anime culture and those musicals because it also had a big focus on those kinds of love stories. Existed for around 100 years at this point and in hindsight was pretty progressive for its time but also seemingly pushed those “Class S” relationship ideas into the spotlight that e.g. Yurikuma is so up in arms about.
    But to be more specific: I think the story goes that Tezuka’s mother was a big fan Takarazuka, so he saw a lot about this as a child which was a big influence for his manga Princess Knight which in turn not only was the first shoujo style manga but also introduced this whole fascination with gender ambiguity etc. Which in turn brings us to Roses of Rose of Versailles and Oniisame E which lead to Utena…. so he basically spoofs his own influences. Yuris play is even just Rose of Versailles in all but name (which was also a really popular musical for real life Takarazuka troupes).
    The scene with her lover might be especially interesting in this context (even if it contributes very little to the whole plot). You wandered about transgender elements there but in both cases would asume thats not the right frame of references. I would see this just as a lesbian affair which one of those “male role” actresses. This tradition seems to be the origin of all those handsome lady character in anime as well. But they were seen as women and this was all basically about crossdressing / acting / appearance / romantic fantasy etc. I guess this whole “Otako no ko” concept in anime is just a new iteration on the same idea.
    But to frame this as a completely sexual and secret thing is interesting in its own right because those actresses where adore like rockstars even way back then but this was still 1910s traditionalist Japan and when rumors about actresses having ACTUAL lesbian relationship spread that was a big scandal. Ikuhara just likes to troll in every way he can 😀
    As for the comment about here body in that scene: by this point incl. the back story this should make far more sense then before. Some people still read this as something like transgender implications but I would say its far more likely that this is about here metaphorical and/or literal scars or whatever her father did in those scenes (the less I delve on this the better -_- )
    But I think you were totally right about the ridiculousness of their job implications and I asume thats also intentional commentary because wife quitting there jobs is still the expected course of action it seems.
    Also taking here childhood trauma, the obsession with Momoka, her affair, how little f***s she gave about Ringo “night” with the teacher and her all around “acting” its pretty easy to see this just as a relationship of convenience as a whole even if the show doesn’t really go into this idea much.
    Also transgenderism might as well fall under the same category in Japan as lesbianism is framed in Yurikuma regarding invisiblity. At least in anime I don’t remember (m)any respectful presentation that would even fit the western definition.
    Oh and BTW if you want more context for all those extremely specific metaphors in Yurikuma. Lots of bloggers past around this Yuricon article as point of reference when the show aired:
    That might be the broadest sweep over all those topics of from social problems to yuri genre to even Takazukas influence.
    Or listen to Oncle Yo “We are the Geek” Podcast episode about Yurikuma … don’t know of you know the guy but its kinda irrelevant anyway because he let 2 of his lesbian friends explain their reading of the show all of there own.
    And when you finish THIS show here you might also look into Murakamis “Underground”…. at least in summaries. After reading about the constant references in the show (to this book and others) I was surprise how much of the painful realities of the real incident are reflected in Penguindrum…. this book in hindsight almost feels like a blueprint for this show.

    • Wow, thanks for the info! I’ll definitely look into these things.
      Also, lol, talk about small world. I was a guest on We Are the Geek several times.

  3. Funny indeed. I thing at least one of the women on the mentioned episode is also friends with the guys from GeekNights so I only later noticed that I also heard her on their podcast before. The anime community really feels small at times ^^
    Oh now i remembered all the stuff by Gabriella Ekens (@gabbomatic) about Yurikuma and Penguindrum are also pretty interesting reads (Yurikuma as reviews-analysis mix on ANN and MPD on here blog as literature reference research: ) but that stuff is completely spoilers at this point in the story….

  4. Oh and one last bit of trivia I forgot to write earlier that might be interesting for your discussions (promise I stop after that ^^)
    You talked about how CSA themes showed up in his work again and again and who it seems really personal and its not just you… I have seen many comments about the fact that he really ehm… invested to confront viewer with the stark cruelty that comes with the territory. Obviously Ikuhara is notoriously cagey about any kinds of insight about his works (or otherwise he might as well speak in riddles ^^) so we may never know but at least for Yurikuma there were parts of making of material / interviews / BR commentary or something of that nature flouting around on the web at the time of airing that might be relevant to this discusion.
    Basically he explained that since Penguindrum he has surrounded himself with lots of female staff members he could consult in his creative process (and obviously all the mangaka he collaborated with / was in inspired by for his shows were female as well). He even joked how he got their approval for the fanservice elements in YKA to not go to over the top or something like that.
    There was also a statement that straight out confirmed what many have speculated before how he was basically vouching with his name for this anime because nobody in anime production seems interested in yuri from this “realistic” (as i would call it) angle unless a big name was attached. Hyperbole? Maybe… but still interesting insight into his ambitions. (And sadly the BR sales seem prove the execs right… those ambitious, socially commentative anime the west likes to dissect seem find no audience in Japan)
    Away… my point is maybe the CSA is not his experience necessarily but he just had the right people on his team to get the presentation for this right or this is just part of his goals to push the envelop as weeeeell…. how many other anime get this topic right? … Then on the other hand Utena might as well be his most complete statement on abuse and its dynamics and that was a waaaaay different creative team and time in the industry so what would I know ^^

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